I Had a Thought.

"cazzyodo" (cazzyodo) 07/02/2014 at 10:30 • Filed to: MOAR POWER?

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We've all read about the upcoming !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and it's RIDICULOUS 700hp, tire-shredding HEMI.

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I drooled a little.

You drooled a little.

Our brains melted trying to fathom all the 'Murica that will spill out of the tailpipes.

But then I went back and read something from our good friend, Doug DeMuro. While some may consider this a mistake, I personally enjoy reading his posts because in between the jokes and Zach Braff inner monologue he raises some questions and stirs some thoughts. He !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and established that "today's high-performance exotic cars are so fast that they're becoming too powerful for the racetrack."

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What's that mean, exactly? The cars we lust over are becoming (dare I say) too powerful. That's actually not a big deal, when it comes down to it. Technology advances, things get faster, races become faster, crashes happen, EXCITEMENT AND THE SOUNDS!!!!!

But connect the two articles I linked above. All exotic cars drive the same because they cannot reach their limits, especially by average consumers. 700HP HELLCAT SCREAMING AMERICAN MUSCLE.

I would love the Hellcat. Most of us would. But I have a thing about vehicles that are not used to a level of their potential. My neighbor has a Jeep Wrangler that will never see mud (or even a dirt road to a mountain ski resort). There are people who have pickup trucks for no reason (I love pickups but can't justify one now). Supercar owners are a strange ground that Doug touched on in his musings.

So my actual question is this:

At what point do we see a fast car couple with efficiency for a realistic combination of fun and frugality?

I'm not saying that I want a 50mpg vehicle that has a 0-60 time of 3 seconds. That would be cool but when could I use it? I'm saying that 50mpg or greater would be a great complement to a fun little vehicle like my FoST. Going out for a fun drive and not caring about mpg on a 12 gallon tank doesn't leave much in total travel...but doing that with twice the range would be beautiful.

Just a thought. Nothing more.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:36

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I agree from a track standpoint, the kind that turns left and right and such. But at the drag strip more power = faster quarter mile, as long as you have the tires to put it down. So I can understand these muscle cars gaining more and more power, because if they'll ever see a track, I bet 8-9 times out of 10 it'll be the drag strip.

I think the Hellcat is OK, it'll likely be sold in fairly limited numbers to enthusiasts. The majority of people will probably opt for its tamer brother the SRT8, or even the R/T.

For most people it will never see its full potential, but what is its potential really? At the track the Challenger isn't known as the best handler, I think. I think this car simply exists because it can.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:37

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I totally agree. At some point all that power means nothing. And you don't need all that power to have fun. Instead of making a 4300lbs car that has 707hp, Dodge should have tried to build a 3000lbs car a reasonable about of power, and gets at leastmpg in the high twenties, but I guess that wouldn't get as much attention.

Victorious Secret > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:40

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This is a boulevard cruiser that makes lots of sound and can most likely demolish the long distance trips without much effort.

Take your bets on its EPA rating, a deactivated V8 + tall 8th gear = no gas guzzler tax.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:40

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I love this car, but I honestly would rather a 4C. Lightness and refined drivetrains are (should be) the future. Driving a car with 100hp I am able to explore every singe one and know the limits of my vehicle. As cool as 700 hp sounds (literally), it's the wrong direction. Jalopnik loves this car, but we won't be the ones buying them. The market for these cars is the more money that brains, and slightly hick, club. It an awesome car, but it's the wrong direction in my opinion. Maybe I'm making a bad point. I'd love a Viper with 450hp that weighs 500-800 lbs less. That's what I'm getting at. If we keep going on like this the world will end not by nuclear bombs, but by uncontrollable amounts of horsepower and trees.

RazoE > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:42

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*wipes away tear*

America.....fuck yeah..

Alfalfa > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:46

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A few thoughts on your thoughts:

First, I adore the Challenger, if for no other reason than styling. I think it has done the best job of looking current, but remaining true to its original styling. I even like the fact that it only goes in a straight line, because muscle car.

Second, as awesome as I think the Hellcat is, I would be perfectly happy with the SRT, for your reasons stated above. The SRT has plenty of power to keep me happy. Would I still buy the Hellcat if I became a millionaire? Probably. Would I buy one of I started making 6 figures? Probably not, to be honest.

Third, and somewhat in jest, I would like to point out that the Hellcat's cornering ability can easily be pushed to it's limits. Probably even in my neighborhood streets.

RotaryLover > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:48

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It's safer. Cars are heavier and needs more power to make up for the mass they gain. It will continue like this on and on and on.

OPPOsaurus WRX > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:49

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When I first bought the WRX I found myself thinking that if you really want to buy a vehicle that you could push close to its limits on regular roads you should buy an SUV. There is not way you could reach the limits of a WRX on roads never mind something with 700hp. In my former Explorer Sport Trac, it felt like I could take the entrance ramp to the highway at a speed that was not insane but pretty much about as much as the explorer could handle. With the WRX, I find myself saying, that's fast enough, not because I feel like I'm going to crash and blow up, but because if a cop just happened to be coming around the bend, I'd be getting pulled over, again. But speed in both vehicles was about the same.

cazzyodo > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/02/2014 at 10:52

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Oh, without a doubt it exists because it can. Somewhere in reading the articles I mentioned and a couple other things I just had a "where's my flying car!?!?!?!" moment and wanted to get it down.

I find it interesting, is all. Because most enthusiasts don't have the means to get vehicles we lust over it would be great to have something that actually does check all the boxes. There's always an element of compromise, of course, but the technology is there to give us an even better combination of a what WE want in a dd than is currently out there.

Jayhawk Jake > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 10:52

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When the tech in the 918/P1/TheFerrari trickles down.

The hybrid-for-performance tech will let us give small cars big car power and torque with hybrid economy.

cazzyodo > Alfalfa 07/02/2014 at 10:53

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All three of those thoughts are shared by me as well haha. I love the Challenger styling. I would be thrilled to have an SRT. And I think boats handle better...only barely, though.

In all seriousness, I actually do hold those EXACT thoughts.

cazzyodo > OPPOsaurus WRX 07/02/2014 at 10:54

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Yup...same. Flooring an F-150 and hearing the roar put a dumb smile on my face. Flooring the ST has my head swiveling trying to find the cop car.

Doesn't help that I have the bright red, either.

cazzyodo > Jayhawk Jake 07/02/2014 at 10:56

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We someone (manufacturer) to turn that trickle into a steady flow.

Textured Soy Protein > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/02/2014 at 10:57

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The 4C is cool and all, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fit inside one.

I'm more interested in car companies making normal-sized performance cars but getting creative with the materials they use in order to both provide safety and keep the weight down.

Really the Corvette is a good example of this idea. It's not particularly small, it's actually pretty roomy inside, but the C7 weighs in at a hair under 3300 lbs. the C5, when it came out in 1997, weighed 3220 lbs. So even with 17 years of ever-increasing safety standards, the car has only gained 80 lbs.

Compare that with something like an M3. The E36 in 1997 weighed 3175 lbs, while the E92 had ballooned all the way to 3700 lbs. BMW started getting their act together with the M4 and it's lost a couple hundred pounds from the E92, thanks in large part to creative use of lightweight materials.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 07/02/2014 at 10:57

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Holy shit this thing weighs 4300? What a damn cow. That's what my 4 door land barge Taurus SHO weighs...

Jayhawk Jake > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 11:07

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I think you forgot a word in there...

Battery technology needs to get better, but regardless that sort of development is going to be a trickle. Not really anything to do about that.

cazzyodo > Jayhawk Jake 07/02/2014 at 11:40

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Need*

Funny when you type and swear you included something, reread it, post it, and fail.

But you're absolutely correct there. There's also no incentive for it to be anything but a trickle anyways.

TJDMAX > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 11:49

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Being an engineer I just like to look at cars like the Hellcat as prime examples of just how far automotive engineering has come. Some cars like the Hellcat are great examples of just how much power can be made from a V8 and still have it fit inside the frame rails of a road legal car. The fact that we can produce this power is amazing, but more amazing is that we can produce this power in a "refined" way. The hellcat can be driven tamely (i'm sure) and if you compare it to a Shelby GT500 with 662 horespower, it just goes to show how much effort it takes to build a car that produces that much power and have it still be able to be driven on the streets without spinning the tires with the slightest look at the gas pedal. Other cars are better at showing off the use of lightweight materials, or suspension characteristics etc. The truth is that no body, even pro race car drivers, fully uses the potential of their street cars on a daily basis because if they did everyone would be wrapped around a tree of in the back of a cop car.

But for me at least, I buy a car because it appeals to my senses and wants/desires. I just purchased a 2014 S4. Could I have gotten around town and to work in an A4? Sure i could have, would it have been more efficient and cheaper to run? Most likely. Would it have been just as nice to drive? maybe 70% of the time when i'm just cruising around town yea it would have been, but that other 30% when I want to take that on ramp a bit faster, or pass that idiot bmw driver, or just put a damn smile on my face is when it becomes completely worth choosing the S4 over an A4.

So i agree, 700hp on a street car is insane, most likely will never be used. But for the rare occasions it is used by the owner it would be totally worth it. And if nothing else it just helps show how far we have come in automobile technology, development and refinement.

cazzyodo > TJDMAX 07/02/2014 at 12:08

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I am fascinated in the same way as you are. I may not be an engineer but I grew up geared (pun not intended) in such a way. So I respect the machine and lust over it because it would be a very, very terrific cruiser but I'm furthering the thought about technology and advancements in my mind. That's all.

Jayhawk Jake > cazzyodo 07/02/2014 at 12:09

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I don't think incentive is a problem, technology is

cazzyodo > Jayhawk Jake 07/02/2014 at 12:25

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Biggest fad is in the CUV market. Perhaps focus is there for the time being as opposed to other areas (speculation in regards to incentive).

I can also attribute it to cost which, I guess, ties to technology but maybe also to economies of scale. There are ways to make our vehicles faster AND more efficient but not at the levels to make them available to a larger market. But look at Mazda and their ground up approach for "SkyActiv" or whatever. Good direction.